This thread is for meeting notes from any of the sessions we hold, they should ideally include:
- date
- participants
- notes
- actions / outcomes
- date time for next session
This thread is for meeting notes from any of the sessions we hold, they should ideally include:
Date: 2020-10-01T09:00:00Z
Participants: Bruno, Katie, Nick
Date: 2020-10-08T11:00:00Z
Date: 2020-10-08T11:00:00Z
Participants: Bruno, Joakim, Katie, Nick
We want Karrot to:
Facilitate taking responsibility in completely voluntary groups while avoiding positions of power?
Nick: To have a general purpose non-capitalist community organising platform that can support and encourage groups to use democratic governance processes that are informed by, but also inform, theoretical models.
Nick: In someways we end up needing to remake all of society - e.g. to support the peoples lives who design and build the tool. How to respect the autonomy of the groups to organise as they wish without dominating them with our ideology. Karrot design and development should be accountable and informed the experience of actual groups.
Online/offline tension: Groups are sovereign but we should facilitate rather than dictate their processes. Voting and decision-making outside of meetings: Karrot doesnât understand what happens offline
Philosophy on avoiding hierarchy - should we be clear?
Power vs responsibility: Foodsharing.de positions of responsibility become power quite quickly
Joakim: itâs very easy to get in a power position. Develop feature in Karrot when someone has too much power
Katie: Lift voices of those who donât speak and take space. Idea: The trust Karrot system - could we flip that on its head to encourage people to participate?
This process started thinking about governing bad behaviour and now the conversation has changed to encouraging positive behaviour and participation
Consider changes in governance as groups scale
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Date: 2020-10-15T11:00:00Z
Date: 2020-10-15T11:00:00Z
Participants: Bruno, Joakim, Katie, Nick
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Joakim: thought about how even some of the existing features can be helpful to avoid conflicts, like the feedback, but many people donât use or do not understand how to use them.
not much work has been done since last call, but in the very few minutes before the call Bruno came up with a suggestion for the long-term goal and the process questions based on previous discussion
âKarrot will facilitate groups in organizing and making decision in a democratic and transparent way, encouraging participation from all and avoiding the formation of unaccountable and fixed hierarchies between participants.â
We used Big Blue Button to start drawing the map / user journey. Itâs perhaps not the best tools for thit but it worked. At least Nick and Katie could collaborate on doing some beautiful artwork while having the discussions.
We marked some of the steps that we identified as important to work on.
Date: 2020-10-22T11:00:00Z at https://meet.livingutopia.org/b/nic-lfe-olw-svx
Expected to finalize the map, pick a target on the map to focus on while sketching later on and discuss some material gathered from interviews
Date: 2020-10-22T11:00:00Z
Participants: Bruno, Katie, Nick
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interview guide
good idea to also interview groups that donât use karrot, whoever is available and interesting to us
discussion about doing group interview vs one-on-one
group process is quite interesting for us given itâs a lot about community, as the group mind can become activated
for groups that haveât already experienced issues with governance, can guide questions towards imaging how they would approach things speculatively
with FS Stockholm
Meta-reflections on the process. Difference between corporate and voluntary settings. Making people understand what itâs about
Working on the map
2020-10-29T12:00:00Z at https://meet.livingutopia.org/b/nic-lfe-olw-svx
Date: 2020-10-29T12:00:00Z
Participants: Bruno, Katie, Nick
(Edit: I found the notes!)
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Discussion on how to progress
Discussion insights from the interviews
-Preserving the values
Integration of principles
Organize HMW notes
Homework
2020-11-09T12:00:00Z https://meet.livingutopia.org/b/nic-lfe-olw-svx
Date: 2020-11-09T12:00:00Z
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Katie, Vasileios
Facilitator: Nick
Date: 2020-11-12T12:00:00Z
Facilitator: @Katie_Berns
Date: 2020-11-12T12:00:00Z
Attendance: Nick, Katie, Vasilis
*Check-in
Vasilis made test group
1: How might we ⌠make it easy for people to create and review existing rules?
Work in Exaclidraw with one HMW
Vasilis: What if a group appears against the values of Karrot with capatalist rules or something
What is the role of Karrot?
3 Golden rules in the Real Junk food project, should Karrot to that?
Nick as a developer has full access to all user data and communication - the only thing stopping him from accessing this info is his own morality, there is nothing built into the tech layer.
Rule library
Local specific rules
Trust karrot system
Common rule is sharing the best pickups
Easing in to rules
Relationship between rules and constitution
Constitutional statement with values of the group without clear rules
Constitution is inspirational and the rules should be linked to the mission
Refection on method: hard to know whats next.
It would be good to zoom in an explore things in a concrete way.
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Katie, Vasileios
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values and vision
for people who join a group to understand what they are
and for poeple to update them
talking then sketching
constistution / agreement / âgolden rulesâ kind of thing, kept quite brief and easily accessible, visible when itâs updated, maybe even a process for updating it, and definately some history, maybe a bell notification, / email
maybe a conversation for discussing changes, so like a change proposal process, could be voting, review, maybe somebody (or some number) with some trust can approve
agreement_manager stuff from before is something to think about, but we donât need to worry to much about that role, maybe editors can just edit somethingâŚ
facilitating discussions is important, not just buttons, maybe a temperature check thing with emojis is nice, maybe a way to have a quick temperature check and if it passes ok then fine, but if there is some concern then maybe trigger a bigger decision making process⌠maybe even a retrospective thing âlazy consensusâ when changes are made, but if somebody flags it up later trigger the longer process
ties into previous concepts/ideas of allowing people to do things, but allowing undo, which we didnât implement like that, but we did do history!
rule library ponderings
on creating a group
Values, how do you make decisions, a section for how to contact people in groups.
The rule section has a place to give a reason for the rule but they are also linked to a place or thing as another category
Space for comment/discussion
Ability to make changes, setting to faded style until it gets enough upvotes or nobody complains within a certain time.
If there is a rule contested there is a system in place to discuss and develop it. Similar to conflict resolution. Vote and ammendment possibility within a certain time frame. You can change your vote throughout your discussion.
how will we manage this âlooking for solutions stageâ? ⌠which methods do we use going foward?
next meeting
Thursday 1 pm CET
facilitator: Bruno
choose the most interesting aspect(s)/feature in each sketch to focus on. Another round of sketch
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Date: 2020-11-26T12:00:00Z
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Katie, Vasilis, Nick
Check-in
Describe each others sketches
Bruno discussing Katieâs
Nickâs sketch:
Brunoâs
Vasilis
Meta thoughts on how to continue the process
A round to discuss most interesting parts to each of us across all the diagrams
Bruno
Vasilis
Katie
Nick
check sketches again and pick most interesting ideas
rule library very central
exchange of ideas between groups
discussion within groups about rules/agreements
Another quick round of sketches (15 mins)
Nick on his own with pen and paper, Katie, Bruno and Vasilis together on Excalidraw
Feedback
For next meeting
sketch more async before next meeting
convert hand drawn one into excalidraw
Vasilis, Bruno and Katie will try to find a time to work together on their sketch
Facilitator for next meeting: Vasilis
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Date: 2020-12-03T12:00:00Z
Facilitator: Vasilis
Participants: Bruno, Katie, Vasilis, Nick
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update Nick on Brunoâ s, Katieâ s, Vasiliâs sketch :
Questions:
design suggestioin/comment: get sth from the rule library in an editable (not fixed) form that can be adjusted to a (new) groupâs agreements
suggestion: implement things/designs/sketches for the future and pick up âbasicâ things we thinki that we need for the development of a prototype
have in mind the storybook when sketchingâ> https://storybook.karrot.world/?path=/story/conflictsetup--create
Next meeting 2020-12-10T12:00:00Z
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Date: December 17th, 2020
Facilitator: Katie
Participants: Bruno, Katie, Vasilis, Nick
Date: 2020-12-14 16:00 UTC
Present: Bruno, Katie, Vasileios, Nathan
Faciliator: Bruno
Call to discuss, brainstorm and see where ideas from Community Rule may fit into Karrotâs design of governance features and vice-versa
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Quick presentation of our projects and their respective goals
Wherever our discussion is taking usâŚ
Outcome: anything we could collaborate on? Next steps?
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Date: 2021-01-07 12:00 UTC
Present: Bruno, Nick, Katie, Vasileios
Faciliator: Nick
Map from Vasileios
Sketch from Katie
Next meeting:
Date: 2020-12-30 12:00 UTC
Present: Bruno, Nick, Katie, Vasileios
Facilitator: Vasileios
Date: 2021-01-14 12:00 UTC
Present: Bruno, Nick, Katie, Vasileios
Faciliator: Bruno
Next meeting:
Date: January 21st, 2021
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Nick, Vasileios, Katie
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Examples of governance in groups (Discussion)
a newer group with very few rules for now as they are smaller
they have rules for a foodsharing point
-Foodsharing Point-
Rules for use
This food was rescued by Foodsharing Stockholm, which is a community-based movement that helps to reduce food-waste. By taking this food, you have become a part of the Foodsharing movement!
Dropping off food at a Foodsharing point:
Go through all the food in the fridge/cupboards and the food that you are dropping off. Throw away any of the following:
Anything that you yourself would not eat (apart from personal dietary restrictions)
Food that has gone past the expiration date (sista fĂśrbrukningsdag)
Rinse any packaging from old food and recycle it if recycling bins are available.
If any food has spilled in the fridge/cupboards, clean it up.
Taking food from Foodsharing point:
If the best-before date (bäst-fÜre datum) has passed: Use your senses! Look, smell and taste the food.
If the expiration date (sista fĂśrbrukningsdag) has passed: Throw it away!
If neither date has passed: Enjoy!
wondering at which stage adding more structured agreements is useful?
Design of agreementâs page(s)
Next meeting
Facilitator next meeting: Katie
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