Weekly call about Karrot development

Date: 2020-07-19 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Tilmann
Participants: Janina, Tilmann, Nick, Bruno

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • update about reworking the report system in foodsharing
  • conflict resolution in Göteborg
    • maybe have more screen space for conflict resolution discussion?
    • idea to have issue processes for more things than just kicking people out came up again, e.g. target issues to places or pickup series
    • Göteborg is thinking about becoming more federated -> dreaming of umbrella group
  • another co-working session?
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • co-working on Monday 4-7pm

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-07-26 11:00 (UTC+2) with money call afterwards
Next facilitator: Janina
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-07-26 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Janina
Participants: Janina, Bruno, Nick, Tilmann

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • Finished (?) PR on switch groups at topbar https://github.com/yunity/karrot-frontend/pull/2072 (Bruno)
    • Bruno is happy for people to review and change stuff - even if considerably!
  • Start planning a community design process for governance features? (Bruno)
    • Let’s set an approximate date for a kick-off call that also includes the update about foodsharing governance struggles.
    • It’s meant to get the discussion going about conflict resolution with input from Janina, Nathalie and Bruno, and then use the momentum to teaser the design process.
    • Janina will check with Nathalie for a good (approximate) time.
  • Image upload (Nick) + community engagement
    • Nick has a PR in backend and frontend as WIP. Backend is implemented, frontend needs more work but some user input would be nice.
    • Will wait some weeks and then incorporate any potential wishes. If there are none it’s also fine, community engagement takes some time. But it’s worth it!
    • Community forum integration in Karrot could be made more prominent again. Different ideas how it could look like.
    • Important to keep the channel open and make it possible for users to form an opinion early on. Cause if they complain afterwards we won’t always undo features and such.
    • Idea: Release thread on the forum. Like a changelog in natural language.
  • check-out
  • money call

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • set an approximate date for conflict resolution call
  • make a thread on the community forum for releases

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-02 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-08-02 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Nick, Philip (for a bit), Tilmann, Janina, Mika (only for a tiny bit)

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • governance call with fs + international people
  • NordiCHI thing
  • top bar group select review
  • incoming emails
  • co-working session?
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Janina will talk again to Nathalie to see times that would work for the call
  • Co-working session Tuesday 12:00 (UTC+2)

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-09 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Janina
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Hi Janina, wed love to join for rhe netx meeting, but we just realized its tomorrow!! our time!!

We cant make it this time, but we are waiting for your next post with the date for the next meeting, and sure we can be up 3am :wink:

Fausto - Andrea / UIO

1 Like

Sounds great! We decided to shift the weekly call next week to 5pm UTC+2, to make it easier for you to join in. Does it fit you?

Date: 2020-08-09 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Janina
Participants: Janina, Tilmann, Nick, Bruno

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • co-working on last Thursday outcomes:
    • Nathalie was there
    • community call about conflict resolution and decision making will happen beginning of September, time poll is running right now
    • Bruno shared the community design sprint docs, because Janina is thinking of using it in foodsharing
    • Janina had a look at https://github.com/yunity/karrot-frontend/issues/1704 again and came to realize that the original idea is not the best, but that there are other solutions mentioned as well. Will make a wireframe.
  • Member List
    • Janina opened VSC for the first time in months :tada:
    • played around with design ideas to display the member count on top of the member list
    • Bruno suggests to put a chat bubble for each member there as well, Janina is not a fan of too many buttons there, Tilmann says the karrot buttons could also go away as it makes the list very slow to load
    • Bruno reminds of the open issue to potentially remove the group invite feature as it makes it possible to smuggle people into a group without going through the application process
    • Janina points out that it could be cool to have the possibility to sort members by karrot count
    • another idea is to display active members in groups of editors, members and newbies
    • a complete redesign of the member list could be useful at some point…
  • Promotion and headhunting
    • more people on the team would be great - but how to get them?
    • mastodon seems to be our best shot so far; there is some engagement so we just keep it going
    • can be found here: https://fosstodon.org/@karrot
  • Janina will have a call with Big Belly Taiwan to tell them how foodsharing works in Germany
  • Solikyl using places on Karrot for discussion (Bruno)
    • Karrot doesn’t have much space for casual chatting, so chatting places are talked about: one for random, one for board and one for managing applications
    • the places are marked with ‘[+]’ prefixing the name
    • so far only the board place was created but others will follow
    • still early to evaluate how it works, Bruno will keep us posted
  • Connectors between Karrot team and specific groups
    • enhance personal contact, formalize what’s already happening and create connections where they are missing
    • everybody present can imagine taking over some contacts
    • Nick is interested in pursuing this more when he is back in Göttingen
  • Tilmann made backend dependency upgrades work again; also had a look at automatically marking wall messages as read
    • Tilmann wonders if the wall message marking is important enough to put a lot of time in solving this
    • there are some issues because of the two different possible reading patterns
    • messaging generally is complex, Tilmann would have rather never implemented it; Nick points out that it’s the feature everything is about in the end - but now it’s too late anyway since we already have it
    • Tilmann doesn’t like to work on the conversations, he finds it frustrating because it still doesn’t work properly and he gets the feeling that he will never get it to a satisfactory state
    • Nick and Bruno suggest to identify smaller issues, maybe get more feedback from the community about what actually is annoying or missing - that way it could also feel more motivating because there’s an immediate user need
  • People from UIO want to join the next weekly call: Weekly call about Karrot development
    • it’s very early for them (3am local time); we could offer them to have the call later, e.g. 5pm UTC+2?
    • agreed
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • add https://fosstodon.org/@karrot to Karrot about page (Tilmann)
  • maybe have a look at Bruno’s Pull Request (Tilmann)
  • Bruno will apply to the Swedish groups as a contact person for the Karrot team
  • co-working Thursday 10:00 (UTC+2)

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-16 17:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Nick
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Hi Tillman.
yes, if i get everything right, we can join the https://meet.jit.si/karrot at sunday 08-16 17:00 (UTC+2)
As we’ve never used the software: do i need to sign up or something?
Thank you

1 Like

That’s right.
You just need to open the link in a browser, no signup necessary. It will use your computer’s microphone and speakers, so you might want to make sure they work :slight_smile:

1 Like

@ConexionUtopia if you have any specific points to add to the agenda in advance you can add them to this pad https://codi.kanthaus.online/karrot-weekly?edit - but we can also freestyle if you prefer :wink:

Ping @ConexionUtopia - we started the call already, so join if you’re able to! --> https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-08-16 17:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Tilmann, Janina, Bruno, Fausto

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • message images nearly ready (nick)
  • when to do next production deploy? (nick)
    • maybe once message images are ready? (quite soon I hope!)
  • I implemented a simple suggestion from Warsaw to show more info about people dropping out from pickups (nick)
  • more statistics display (nick)
  • update with Fausto about what’s happening in Quito, Ecuador
    • There is foodsharing Quito, but Karrot is not used much to organize it. People rather just go to the store and do the pickup.
    • Foodsharing Quito does have official cooperations, even though some have stopped due to covid.
    • Karrot (the old foodsaving group) is used more for a new urban gardening project.
    • Another idea (dreaming stage): Use Karrot to connect and distribute free sleeping spots.
    • Right now foodsaving and other things happen in the same group and Fausto prefers it like this to not have everything separated.
    • Bruno and Nick recommend to switch that group over to the general purpose theme, then people can try it out and see if it makes more sense.
    • Fausto looks at MLH Local Hack Day group on dev.karrot.world and agrees that the general purpose theme fits better. Nick will switch the foodsharing Quito group over.
    • Could be cool to have the general purpose theme translatable - in this case to Spanish. But for now it’s not that importan since only a handful of people use the Karrot group anyway.
    • Fausto unfortunately got connection problems and left.
  • schedule co-working
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • co-working on Thursday 3 pm, and potentially more spontaneous dates
  • everybody go through previous roadmap meeting: Roadmap meeting

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-23 11:00 (UTC+2), followed by roadmap
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-08-23 17:00 (UTC+2), followed by roadmap
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Janina, Tilmann, Nick

1. Agenda

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Plan Metagov seminar Tuesday evening on/after 7pm
  • Quick planning online on a pad about the Foodsharing governance call

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-30 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator:
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-08-30 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Tilmann
Participants: Tilmann, Janina, Nick, Bruno

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • production release!
    • image upload is live, Bruno immediately informed the bike kitchen people
    • they asked about the limits of picture size
    • Nick wants to improve that at some point because the square crop really doesn’t work for graphics with text and/or detailed information. This may take a while though.
  • PWA, offline features and quasar cli
    • Tilmann went on a bit of a journey:
    • first he wanted to build something that would let you open the camera from within the app to directly take a photo and not only have the option to choose one from the gallery
    • he found that it would be cool to progress in the direction of PWA instead of having an extra app, because than we could also use more things from libraries of the webapp
    • quasar cli bundles all the fancy features from the webapp
    • Bruno asks if having a PWA would make the app superfluous, Tilmann says yes
    • Nick points out that PWAs can’t go in the play store but TWAs can - it’s a different kind of wrapper, this time from google
    • is the app even used to much? Bruno has the impression that people use Karrot more in the browser anyways
  • iphone
    • the topic just came up when talking about the previous one
    • grafana shows that the most used os are iphone and android comined
    • Janina says that we should maybe finally ask in the community if someone wants to gift us their older iphone in case they plan on getting a new one so that we can do testing with it
    • Bruno thinks it’s a great idea even though he didn’t get any complainty anymore
    • Tilmann would just hope that safari improves and that all the iphone problems go away magically because he’s really tired of fixing frontend bugs
  • playground and signing up
    • people are often confused to end up in the playground group after signing up, Bruno had recent examples again
    • the plan is to make playground a closed group, there are already prs in the pipeline
    • newly signed up users would then not be added to the playground group anymore but directed to the group gallery
    • it would be cool to guide them more to groups which might be interesting to them, maybe based of geolocation?
    • the tab in which the signup happens often already knows the group people want to apply to, but after signup a new tab opens and that doesn’t have the information anymore - this might be the main flaw in the signup flow
    • Tilmann suggests that it might be time for some kind of backend store
    • Nick likes the idea of using geolocation to show likely relevant groups more prominently
    • sorting in the group gallery divided in the two categories ‘nearby’ and ‘rest of the world’
  • NordiCHI
  • foodsharing call
    • next Thursday at 2 pm in BBB
  • check-out
  • payday call!

2. Actions/Outcomes

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-09-06 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: ?
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-09-06 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Tilmann, Janina, Bruno, Nick

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • Tilmann’s newest thing: PWA features
    • https://github.com/yunity/karrot-frontend/pull/2179
    • pr should be ready but was not properly tested yet
    • ‘add to home screen’ button is the biggest user-facing change
    • push should still work, Tilmann rewrote it a bit
    • the goal is to have the mobile website work in the same way the app does - just without the bugs
    • Nick wants to review in the next few days, if he doesn’t get to it it should be merged to master just like that
  • the other Karrot
  • Foodsharing groups in Sweden
    • other groups using places in more general purpose ways (meetings, drop-offs, fridge cleaning), like other groups have been doing
    • bought foodsharing.se! what to do with it? maybe run karrot on it and migrate all the swedish groups to it?
    • a simple info page seems a good idea for now
    • open questions: do we want to split the swedish groups by topic and have them on different domains? do we want to isolate sweden in the way that it’s on their own instance and not really connected to foodsharing groups in other countries?
  • More on governance
    • very nice call, but was expecting a few more groups to participate
    • was hopefully going to lead into design process
    • challenge to get people comitted, how to get people to participate in a whole design process then?
    • how to motivate more connections/exchanges between foodsharing groups? foodsharing.de groups have been talking about some of it!
    • possiblity to create “foodsharing sweden exchange” (for example)
    • but perhaps having more open/public communication outreach
    • within Gothenburg group, wondering how to avoid hierarchies, and maybe with more specific roles, working on defining store co-ordinator role but concerned how to avoid creating power roles, but important to create a contact person for the store, or guidance for doing pickups
    • moving forward with design process
      • keep it minimal
      • use forum for co-ordinating/running it
      • have perhaps 3 people in core?
      • allow others to participate more randomly
      • also ask the experts is good point for asking
  • NordiCHI submission
    • deadline got moved to the 8th
    • left to do: finish up the critical issues section and finalize tho whole bit
    • Nick is happy to do the final polishing and submission part
    • Janina and Bruno will have another look at the critical issues, Philip doesn’t have any time
  • check-out
  • payday call, second try?

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Nick, Janina, and Bruno to complete NordiCHI submission
  • All: keep in mind progressing the design process for goverance (or other topics)
  • Nick to review Tilmanns PWA MR in the next few days

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-09-13 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Tilmann
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-09-13 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Tilmann
Participants: Bruno, Tilmann, Nick, Katie

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • submitted NordiCHI application
  • general Karrot direction
  • design process for governance features
    • anecdote from Gothenburg
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • co-working Tuesday 2 pm
  • merge some of the recent PRs

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-09-20 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-09-20 12:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Tilmann, Janina, Nick

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • NordiCHI new channel + money stuff
    • October 26th
    • we’re quite unclear exactly what is involved
    • fees are a big barrier to participation as we don’t have income
  • custom activity types, name for “pickup”, recap?
    • type names would not be translatable
    • issue of templates + existing groups
    • idea to keep translations for common names, when you create a group you can choose one of those “suggested” names, which then gets copied in as the name
    • idea to detirmine the language of the group (manually, by checking the wall, or automatically by looking at the most common language of the users in that group)
    • the concept is we’re relaxing the concept of all groups having a centralized concept of a “pickup”, but now we’re moving to custom names, so the complexity comes with the transition
    • idea to maintain a standard set of activity types in the translation system that can be used if they want, OR they can use a free text field for the type
    • lingering question on how to implement these predefined-types, just in translation files, or more deeply in code, or something, and how it relates to how the group templates would be defined
    • thinking of groups that might benefit from this work to get involved more, toy library would be a candidate, slowly moving towards possibly adopting an organising tool
    • existing uses for custom activities are meetings, distributing events
    • another idea, the predefined names are only used for the purpose of migrating existing groups, new groups would have to define them
  • production deployment
    • most of the special handling of the playground group removed
    • otherwise not many noticeable changes
    • hold off to fix small issue with app relating to migrating to quasar app
    • need a bit more testing of dev PWA app, in particular push notifications
  • TWA stuff
    • way from google to get the PWA into the play store to replace the cordova app
    • tool available for apk building (bubble wrap), but seems a bit heavy/confusing
    • the web part and app part need to declare things about how they relate to each other, so need to be built together (currently we build seperately), or somehow solve it otherwise
    • initial POC TWA was created, but still WIP FYI YMMV IIRC, (USB cable missing from SOFA)
    • we don’t currently have older android devices, but maybe some people around kanthaus do
    • tilmann has some motivation to continue on this!
    • some confusion around the connection between the web browser version, installed PWA, and TWA based on the PWA… some handling seems available if level-10 PWA master level is achieved
    • query about how google-dependent we become? some support from apple for PWAs
    • “pwabuilder” can make an xcode project, wondering if we can use this, then build the project in circleci? (as we got access to apple ci containers previously iirc)
  • disappearing messages https://github.com/yunity/karrot-frontend/issues/2192
  • a couple of reflections about Philips paper
    • topic: people grow chili plants together, join a telegram group and start communicating
    • takeaway: creating this connection leads to a much wider interaction between the people involved, they start sharing other stuff and tips and form a bond which can lead to a major shift in society as a whole if done in many places
    • takeaway for karrot: how to lower the threshold for people to participate?
    • old tradeoff between common/widespread platforms (people already have them) and specialized platforms (much more refined features)
    • really motivated core-type people will go for the specialized thing, but how to lure in the more peripheral people who only want to participate casually? could a somewhat related telegram group help?
  • vague ponderings relating to the “one straw revolution” book I just read
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Tilmann will continue with TWA

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-09-27 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Nick
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-09-27 12:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Katie, Tilmann

1. Agenda

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • define the scope of the design process on post at the community forum, channel on Rocket Chat. Meeting Thursday 1 Oct at 11 am

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-10-04 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Tilmann
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-10-04 12:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Tilmann
Participants: Tilmann, Bruno, Janina

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • governance call Governance Meeting Notes
    • Janina won’t join in because another weekly call would be too much for her. She would still be interested to follow the process occasionally.
  • what’s still to be done to get the release ready?
    • some more bugs to fix, especially in the app
    • Tilmann hopes to get around to it in the following days
  • More coworking?
    • Nick and Tais might arrive in Kanthaus middle of next week, then more co-working might be happening
  • Toy library in Gothenburg as potential new group
    • they are interested but also not decided
    • Bruno is lobbying hard…^^
    • so far he didn’t go into the anti-proprietary software topic but he probably will in the future if they want to go for facebook groups
    • small side discussion about ‘The social dilemma’ (summary: good documentary, but very American. Still worth showing/recommending to people who are not in the topic at all.)
  • Governance features vs. generalization
    • Tilmann points out that it’s a competition in terms of developer time
    • should be discussed in the group where more motivation lies
    • does it make sense to jump from topic to topic or is it better to stick to one?
    • personal ways of working differ, maybe both can be done - but then slower
    • it’s mostly about Nick since Tilmann can’t find the time to tackle big tasks right now
    • Bruno feels that the much more structured way of moving forward with the governance topic gives it a head-start
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-10-11 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-10-11 14:20 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Tilmann
Participants: Tilmann, Janina, Nick, and Taïs right at the end informally

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • pre-release fixes
    • push notifications - main topic remaining before doing next release
    • also some minor bug fixes that could be done, but optional
    • possibly release process itself needs fixes, as it will be the first with the new quasar app structure
  • community design process - governance topics
    • first call occured last Thursday, summary is: Stage 1 - Defining the Challenge
    • experts/people to ask include Janina, Nathalie, Anja - with lots of experiences across fs.de groups
    • confusing responsiblitiy with power has been a key topic in foodsharing.de groups
    • wondering about how to incoporate input from active groups that we don’t have so much communication with
    • … then some more chat about different groups who maybe aren’t so ideologically motivated, but use karrot as a tool
    • … then a bit further into topics about opening new jars of jam and about putting them in the fridge or not
    • (Janina wants to reassure all readers of this that the conversation did actually gently morph into that topic, not as a big jump)
  • mumblings about power and hierarchy
  • time for next call?
    • let’s try to establish 12!
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • unscheduled local co-working in Kanthaus
  • continue with fixing push

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-10-18 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Nick
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot

Date: 2020-10-18 12:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Tilmann, Janina, Katie

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • feedback about governance community process
    • see Governance Meeting Notes
    • … and installed spacedeck! https://spacedeck.karrot.world/s/2902615-Playground
    • inteviews
      • presenting what we’re doing so far, the process
      • present the long term goals, and maybe the map
      • capturing the ideas/insights
        • “How Might We?” questions
        • (described in google design sprint book)
      • some understanding of the context/categories of the people/groups we ask, established groups vs new groups, etc…
  • NordiCHI logistics/plans
  • activity types for existing groups?
    • see Custom activity and place types
    • initial idea to improve on:
      • foodsaving groups:
        • Pickup/Meeting/Task/Event?
        • Pickup/Meeting/DistributionEvent?
      • general groups: Meeting/Task/Event
      • bikekitchen groups: Meeting/Task/Event
      • idea to put a poll in the forum and ping the groups:
        • pick top 3 or 4
        • options:
          • Pickup
          • Meeting
          • Task
          • Event
          • Distribution
          • Sharing
          • Dropoff
          • Shift
        • vote for any (“approval vote”)
  • Problem of how to go about a pickup that requires people to go to two different places?
    • for now it’s probably best to simply create it as one pickup in one place and write a big comment
    • the other possibility would be to make two places and two pickups and then write a big comment that you should always sign up for both but that’s probably more complicated
    • in the future there could be events that are independent of locations, but that requires bigger refactoring and rearchitecturing
  • … been playing with frontend data stuff
    • Nick aiming to at least write up assessment of existing architecture
  • we did a release!
    • Notes: Karrot release updates
    • … and so far nobody complained, yay!
    • statistics page
      • missing explanation for left and left late
      • could include a link to a forum post to explain it and provide a place for discussion
      • could do with a name filter
      • is actually part of governance, as the idea is instead implementing complex rules we present information to be used in human processes
  • making places more friendly for discussion
    • more like a channel on slack/rocketchat
    • multiple channels?
    • how to make it easier to find important conversations
    • chat vs forums…
    • rocketchat has channels, discussions, threads, but generally is a bit confusing!
    • also relates to governance topics, as it’s where governance discussions happen, working groups…
    • maybe could be worth a whole community design process for it
    • balance of small fixes vs bigger questions
  • playground group is now closed
    • need to keep an eye on the applications for it
    • not sure whether people get removed from inactivity
  • question about who gets which notifications under which conditions for applications
    • seems to be designed for small groups to make sure no application gets forgotten, but for bigger groups it’s a bit weird if everyone gets notified by default
    • Bruno might write an issue
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Write about interviews for the governance design process (Bruno)
  • Do some interviews with closer people if desired (Nick, anyone)
  • Review/discuss/merge custom activity types (Nick, Tilmann)
  • Maybe discuss frontend data management (Nick, Tilmann)

3. Next

Payday call! (Fac.: Tilmann)

Next meeting: 2020-10-25 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: https://meet.jit.si/karrot